Thanks for the reply, Brad.
As for complaining to the Master Quality Controler, I have found that to be a losing proposition.
No complaints,
Steve
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| Bone vs. Corian vs. ? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2255 |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:11 am ] |
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I've been building guitars for about a year and a half now. So far, I've used Corian for nuts and saddles. I like it because it's easy to work -- it files, sands, and machines easily. The guitars have come out sounding great, IMO. But there seems to be a definite preference among the luthier community for bone, and I'm wondering why. Is there really a noticeable improvement in sound quality when bone and Corian are A-B tested? If you believe there is, can you explain please? Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:33 am ] |
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In a word: Yes. You couldn't have convinced me of that 6 months ago. But Mario Proulx has a way of challenging us sometimes, (hey Mario, where ya been buddy?) and when the opportunity arose, I swapped out a Corian nut and saddle for a bone set. The sound was definitely different, and some would say "better". I thought so. It really was different enough to notice. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:39 am ] |
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I think Mario is off to guitar camp for a few weeks. He said something about being there while everyone else was at Asia. Anyway... I haven't used much corian so I guess I can't really compare the two. I have used bone. It is probably more difficult to work with, but you get used to it. Josh |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:25 am ] |
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Michael, I think the difference would be more noticeable when comparing saddles than nuts. I once replaced a Corian saddle with one made from bone and the sound took a nice jump forward. Brighter, and also more bass response. It surprised me. The replacement was necessary because the face of the Corian kept sloughing off, like shale will do. It seems suitable for nuts, at least size-wise, but too fragile for saddles in that slender dimension. Steve |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:03 pm ] |
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manmades have benefit with some us pickups because they are of uniform consistency and give even string response. and as you mentioned are quicker to shape which combined with th good price means you can offer a cheap alternative to bone for the cash challenged if you choose to. but unless you have a particular reason to need to use it, bone is superior. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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Okay, thanks for the responses. Let me add to my questions a bit. I build classicals. Given the completely different nature of classical and steel strings, do you think that the difference between bone and Corian is as significant with classicals as it is with steel string guitars? Incidentally, I've never had a problem with a Corian saddle chipping or flaking. I build my bridges to accept a slightly thicker saddle than "standard" -- about 0.110" -- which may account for some of this. Best, Michael Best, Michael |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:54 pm ] |
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in a word, yes. perhaps even more so. and if you buy your bone blanks from good suppliers the prices are very reasonable, about half the price of a good real ale in a convivial pub. there are some out there charging utterly ridiculous prices. i feel sorry fot the poor dupes taken in by them. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:12 am ] |
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Yeah, the somewhat high prices of bone blanks have put me off a little, too. Guess I haven't found a cheap supplier yet. Know any place where I can buy oversize bone blanks? I'm in the middle of two 10-string classical builds right now (85mm nut, 115mm saddle). Finished the first one yesterday, and I'm about halfway throuugh the second. All I'm lacking on the finished guitar is a nut and saddle. Incidentally, bone was my first choice for these two guitars, but I have been unsucessful so far in finding anybody who can supply oversize blanks. I really don't feel like cutting up a bone. But I have this big slab of white Corian, from which I can easily cut oversize nut and saddle blanks. So unless I can find bone, I guess I'll just do the Corian again. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:46 am ] |
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you don't want oversize, you want giant size. i don't know anyone routinely selling them that size but there is bound to be someone. i buy my bone from euphonon. walter my be able to tell you who would be able to help you. his no. is 888-517-4678. there is a guy running a tread on 10 strings over at luthierforum.com. he may know of a source as well. see here: http://luthierforum.com/index. php?showtopic=938 |
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| Author: | EricKeller [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:54 am ] |
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Doesn't Euphonon have an online catalog somewhere? I googled for it, but couldn't find anything. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:00 am ] |
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nope, a paper catalogue. they are a rather old faxhioned outfit. no internet sales, no cards. snail mail or current accounts. but great people and great products. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:02 am ] |
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Hi Michael, I can cut you an ivory blank in that size if you have any interest. Ivory is generally softer than bone,but of course some of the most famous/greatest sounding classicals were made using this material. I would charge double the price of the standard since it's about double the material-$20 for a nut and $25. for the saddle. |
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| Author: | Tom Dowey [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:08 am ] |
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Euphonon does have a catalog on google. Go to http://catalogs.google.com Then do a search on Euphonon. As crazymanmichael says you will still need to call them, as I don't think they are set up for internet sales. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:13 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Brad Goodman] Ivory is generally softer than bone,but of course some of the most famous/greatest sounding classicals were made using this material. [QUOTE] Brad--Yours is the second statement I've heard from ivory suppliers that bone is harder. I purchased some from the scrimshaw artist in Ohio (can't recall the name right now) who was of the same opinion. Well. The material he sent me was--in my opinion--noticably harder than the bone I was using. And it sounded just great. Are/were my senses deceiving me? Thanks, Steve |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:15 am ] |
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good work tom. that is new. that is their paper catalogue they have put up. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:23 am ] |
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Steve, It has been my experience that the ivory that I had was a little softer than the bone that I had-but of course like wood there can be significant differences from piece to piece-it's not an exact science-the only one we can complain to is the BIG quality controller in the sky!! |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:26 am ] |
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Thanks for the reply, Brad. As for complaining to the Master Quality Controler, I have found that to be a losing proposition.
No complaints, Steve |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:51 am ] |
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i've not had much experience with ivory but i've seen huge variation in bone. some i've returned when i could but some i've just had to relrgate to inlay or the circular file and eat tne minor cost in material. i have no doubt the same is true of ivory. just as some folks have teeth that are soft and break easily our large co-inhabitants must have large variation in tusk quality. |
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| Author: | Jerry Hossom [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:00 am ] |
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I've used a fair amount of ivory over the years, and it is usually VERY consistent. What is not so consistent is what people call "ivory". It is fairly common these days for mastodon ivory to be sold as elephant ivory or just as "ivory" to the unsuspecting. It is much softer than it's modern equivalent. Walrus ivory (generally illegal except as Inuit artifacts) is somewhat harder, unless it's the fossilized kind which is also softer. It's not really fossilized but like mastodon it has spent a whole lot of years in a wet, nasty environment and is not very consistent. Hippo teeth and warthog tusks are about the same as elephant. |
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| Author: | Don A [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:40 am ] |
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[QUOTE=EricKeller] Doesn't Euphonon have an online catalog somewhere? I googled for it, but couldn't find anything.[/QUOTE] They do have a catalog online but it is for 2001-2002. Euphonon Catalog Ooops, looks like Tom already supplied the info. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:55 am ] |
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still the same old dog, though he did send out an addendum with some minor changes a couple of orders ago. |
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| Author: | EricKeller [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:43 pm ] |
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Thanks for the links guys. I thought I remembered seeing their catalog, but google is my tormentor. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:43 am ] |
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If someone wants corian I'll use it but I have always found it to be more expensive than bone. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:03 am ] |
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corian should be free, seek out counter cutouts and samples. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:04 am ] |
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I know corian should be free but all the counter top people I've talked to in my area inform me that they no longer use it. One place said they may still have some samples in the back they could SELL me. But they have to look as they may have thrown them out. Funny how something that they are planning to sell can suddenly become valuable and for sale. |
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